It might also refer to something that's already happened. "Vri glam" == related to "vohris" (slow)/"kla-min" (fact) - slowly facing the fact? Take a look at that link yourself if you haven't done so and you'll see what I mean. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. In a lot of places where they migrated to, the word retains the meaning life, whereas the meaning is starkly different in Russian; it is simply the stomach (the life meaning is archaic/poetic). Ket Cheleb : Destroyer/Blood Drinker; personifies anger. Vulcan was never developed as a language the way Klingon is. The second episode of Star Trek: Picard introduces the Zhat Vash, an ancient Romulan conspiracy dedicated to seeking out and destroying artificial life. I get the feeling that the term might be impossible for English like how schadenfreude translates only into many English words. We're learning about a secret, violent group that uses this as its name. The events of … Posted on February 18, 2021 Author Leave a comment February 18, 2021 Author Leave a comment This Star Trek: Picard article contains spoilers through Episode 3. Ramdha subsequently became hysterical and pulled a disruptor on Asha before attempting suicide. (PIC episode: "Nepenthe") Although Oh presented herself as fully Vulcan, she was actually half-Romulan. During that battle, Narissa was killed in combat with Seven of Nine on the Artifact. In other words, the Zhat Vash Romulans in the late 24th century could have started to hate A.I. There are two possible Vulcan equivalents to "Lam" - "lam-", "to stand" or "to be upright" and "lehm", "to throw; to cast aside/away". The term "Zhat" didn't turn up, but I chose to look under "S", because going from voiced to unvoiced consonants, like from S to Z and back again, is a pretty common phenomenon in real-world languages. The Zhat Vash exist within Vulcan as well, as the Shaht-Vash, and Commodore Oh is part of their Vulcan branch, having "reintegrated" with their Romulan cousins within the Tal Shiar. The Zhat Vash are the boogeymen that even they fear. History Origins. There’s a chance the writers are turning to fan made language I suppose, but seems a little unlikely. Other terms we've seen over the course of the series seem to throw up close matches, although whether this is because there's a possible Vulcan equivalent/hidden belief or whether it's simply a function of the two languages having a common origin is open to speculation. When she was a Tal Shiar recruit, Laris heard a drunk handler claim to her that the organization was motivated by hate, fear and pure unassuageable loathing for artificial intelligence, including androids, AIs, and other forms of synthetic life, which they attempted to seek out and destroy. I also like the thought that they’re tying in Romulan-Vulcan connections into the story given Picard’s history with Unification. (PIC: "Maps and Legends"), The Zhat Vash were formed hundreds of years before the 24th century, when a group of Romulans investigating the mystery of the Eightfold Stars discovered the Admonition on the planet Aia. In fact, the show hired a linguist, Trent Pehrson, to devise their Romulan. Based on what I've read and what other redditors have pointed out, the creator to keep an eye on is Michael Chabon, who seems to be very proficient in languages, wordplay and deep secrets. 3. (PIC: " The End is the Beginning ", " Absolute Candor ") They might even pre-date the Vulcan Romulan split or even be part of the reason for the split. (PIC: "Maps and Legends"), Allegedly, the Zhat Vash operated without regard for treaty or jurisdiction, not just on Romulan worlds, but also in the Klingon Empire, the Gorn Hegemony, and even the United Federation of Planets. Since this term does have Vulcan cognates, I'm going to suggest this : The Zhat Vash and their fear of the Seb-Cheneb isn't purely a Romulan thing because it is in fact so old that it predates the Vulcan-Romulan split. Agents of the Romulan Zhat Vash have infiltrated Starfleet. This is the kind of deep dive borderline crazy (in a good way - no shade here) post that I love on this subreddit. What? Active (2399), The Zhat Vash was an ancient and secret Romulan cabal of Tal Shiar operatives. "Shaipouin", or "false door" appears to mean "Self-curtain" or something similar, because the prefix "Shai-" in Vulcan means "self-"/"automatic-" and "pouin" appears to be related to "ip'an" meaning "curtain/blind/drapes for obscuring structure". Nominated this post by Chief /u/RatsAreAdorable for you. It doesn't matter who made it up, from the VLD it's clear that it's consistent and available. So in episode 2, Laris says the Zhat Vash had been around for thousands of years. Hundred is Centum in Latin (Hard K sound at start) but Satem in Old Avestan which was spoken in Ancient Persia; same with Latin Decem(ten, C is pronounced like K) and Sanskrit Dasham. EDIT: From the discussion I was having with u/bubbly_cloy_n_happy, it turns out that Zhat Vash is described by Zhaban as synonymous with "the dead" rather than the living, and that makes sense in terms of death being the end of fear. Regarding the corrupt Vulcan commodore working with the Romulans. One thing that's interesting about that work is that the unreliable "translator" claims not to fully understand the dialect of the main character, who in turn interacts with characters with varying levels of proficiency in dead languages... as a result, Terminus Est gets a bunch of different translations and interpretations, probably none of which are quite what an English-speaker would expect (e.g. Starting with the destruction of Utopia Planitia Shipyards fourteen years ago. In 2399, the Romulan xB Ramdha accused Soji Asha of being Seb-Cheneb, after seeing the sisters depicted on the final pixmit card in her hand. Vowels and consonants shift as well. If they do, and assuming the VLD is accurate about the Vulcan terms, we might be able to figure out what Romulan words actually mean in places. She used a mind meld to influence Agnes Jurati's understanding of the Zhat Vash's agenda. To die would be free from the constant state of fear pervading life. Raffi also gathers the crew’s disparate pieces of information and is finally able to convince everyone —including Jean-Luc— that Oh (who is apparently half-Romulan, half-Vulcan, explaining how she could be a member of the Zhat Vash but also initiate a mind meld) and the Romulans were behind the synth attack on Mars. I’d say the linguist working on the new words for Romulan here has done their homework here and has a flair for historical linguistics to boot. Given the timeline from ENT this would mean that the Zhat Vash existed on Vulcan before the Romulan exodus. I don't know whether "--tihn" is from "tenkan"(foetus), itself apparently derived from "ten"(less, less than-), or if it has any connection to "tilek" (spear). "Pixmit" as in the cards is a hard one to find cognates for. "Zhal Makh" seems to have cognates in Vulcan "Shal" (self) and "Makh-" (glass, transparent material). I guess this is confirmation that whoever came up with the term "Vri glam" really did have older ST source material in mind, and more proof that these terms for the Romulan Language really are being carefully, consistently derived from existing Vulcan and Romulan terms in previous ST media. 2. There were a lot of complicated mysteries untangled in this episode. This could explain why Oh, an honest-to-goodness Vulcan capable of a mind-meld (which we've never seen a single Romulan do) is on the same side as the Zhat Vash. Oh … The Vulcan words "Gad" for "day" and "ma'toi" for "death" are very close matches. It will be voted on next week, but you can vote for last week's nominations now. For those who aren’t up to date on the events of Picard season one, the Zhat Vash was a secret Romulan order, comprised of Tal Shiar insiders. This could explain why Oh, an honest-to-goodness Vulcan capable of a mind-meld (which we've never seen a single Romulan do) is on the same side as the Zhat Vash. "Vash" is translated as "terror; intense, overpowering fear; one that instills intense fear" (yikes!) Some time before the 24th century, Romulan explorers came across a star system consisting of eight stars with a single habitable planet in the middle. So can we find possible Vulcan-origin equivalents/terms for the Romulan terms that don't seem to have a dictionary translation yet? In 2399, former operative Laris related the rumors about the Zhat Vash to retired Admiral Jean-Luc Picard; they came to believe that the Zhat Vash were likely behind the attacks on Dahj Asha on Earth. From the looks of things it isn't just fanworks, it appears that there are several canonical or quasi-canonical stories that feature bits of a Vulcan language. Funnily enough, when I was thinking of your description of "ending fear and destruction on a personal level", the Vulcans came to mind. A member of the Romulan secret Zhat Vash group, she took place in receiving the Admonition, which was apparently a warning from an ancient race regarding … ...or something. Speaking of Seb-cheneb, I didn't find an exact match for the term but I found something eerily close! If Vash is emphasising the destructive element, it might also refer to how the destruction of one side by the other must be (or, is expected to be) absolute; the end requires destructive interaction, the organization rejects compromise and dialogue in its founding principle. The reason there are two entries is that wiktionary is separating them by writing system (Cyrillic vs Latin script) and some languages use both! Members: And although I buy "Cheleb" and "Cheneb" being related words, I have no idea how "Ket" and "Seb" are related phonetically, or whether "Ket-" in Vulcan is the same thing as "Seb-" in Romulan. A stab at a much more literal meaning, using the parts I highlighted, might be "the end of the fear (of uncertainty? In that context (and context is key here), "The ending of fear" therefore becomes synonymous with "The ending of life" - "Zhat Vash". I found my first probable match under "S", in "Shaht". Interestingly, if we approach our expression, RIP, from a contextless perspective, outside of the culture producing it, we might infer that that is an awful phrase because it can imply that the producing culture views the preceding life as tortuous or possibly without any peace. IIRC, the Zhat Vash are supposed to have existed for thousands of years. He explicitly discussed that they designated canonical phrases in both Romulan and Vulcan, and that he did create words with an eye on the relationship between the languages. After experiencing the memories of the utter devastation wrought by the synthetic "Destroyer", called Seb-Cheneb, contained within the Admonition, they dedicated themselves to eliminating synthetics so as to prevent another such event. and the derived terms are just as ominous -, Vashau - destroy; to destroy completely; damage irreparably; to do away with, cause the destruction or undoing of; to defeat soundly, vashauk - destructive; causing destruction or much damage, vashaya- destruction; termination by an act of destruction; an event (or the result of an event) that completely destroys something; a final state. "Shaht" means "to end", with multiple derivations such as "Shahtau" (ending) and "Shahtan" (to end or to finish). The answer, somewhat unsurprisingly, is yes, if you account for the fact that the Vulcan and Romulan languages, like the species that speak them, have diverged significantly, but not enough to make them totally unlike each other. Color me impressed! Zhat Vash A subreddit for in-depth discussion about Star Trek. Or the disposition of his neurons, anyway. The Zhat Vash were right. "Rok khan" == Rok is hope, and khan is... either from "kan" (child) or "kharan" (shifter) - either "child of hope" or "shifter of hope" is the closest I get. So here we are at episode two of The Search for Data. He's dealt with pre-Surak Vulcan culture too. Could the Zhat Vash/Shaht Vash on Vulcan use the term "Gad-ma'toi" for this predicted apocalypse? )-bonding/composed together of(?) A change from k in Ket- to s in Seb- and the final t- to b- seems a little awkward on its own, unless the original word was something like Cheth- or involved some other final consonant that changed from t- to b- at the same time that the k > s palatalization/assibiliation happened. 4. 2 that,"Zhat Vash is a term sometimes used to refer to the dead, the only reliable keepers of secrets." and the derived terms are just as ominous -, Vashau - destroy; to destroy completely; damage irreparably; to do away with, cause the destruction or undoing of; to defeat soundly, vashauk - destructive; causing destruction or much damage. The split was what 3000 years before PIC. Given their obsession with hunting down "Seb-cheneb, the Destroyer", I'd say that they're aptly named! Very strong links, I was a bit hesitant about drawing upon older Vulcan words in your translation effort but stuff like Narek's cube lines up just too much to be a coincidence. I say this because Zhaban states in ep. It's pretty much given that there are many terms deliberately chosen to be in common between the two languages - TNG writer Naren Shankar coined the term "Tal Shiar" for the Romulan Intelligence Agency to reflect the Vulcan killing technique of Tal'Shaya, and the Vulcan Intelligence Agency's name turns out to be V'Shar, which isn't very far off either, to begin with. "Analyze six-sided window" for a puzzle box? (PIC: "Maps and Legends"), General Oh later led a warbird squadron to destroy the planet's population of synths, but encountered orchids and a fleet of Starfleet starships led by the USS Zheng He. "Vash" exists in Vulcan and it's a doozy. "So all this is about the Zhat Vash hatred of androids." I guess that is what they've been doing. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. She was portrayed by Tamlyn Tomita, who had appeared as Laurel Takashima in the Babylon 5 pilot The Gathering. Zhat Vash as you've dismantled it there immediately reminds me of something from another series, Terminus Est in BotNS. Any similarity to words in the show are likely a coincidence or possibly someone going in after these episodes aired to make similar sounding words. "Gad-ma'toi" (Vulcan) == "Day of Death" == "Ganmaidan" (Romulan). It also pretty literally describes ZV's operations... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the DaystromInstitute community. ), by one side or the other. An older example is the slavic word zivot. The Vulcan word "E'shua" means "demon; devil; evil supernatural being", so that takes care of the "ezh" portion neatly. And last but noit least - "Qovat milash" = Female-repository(? The Zhat Vash was the name of a secretive Romulan cabal that was introduced in the Star Trek: Picard pilot Remembrance. You're right that it's a very simple palatalization; one of the key differences between the Satem and Centum branches of the huge Indo-European language family lies in precisely that shift! For "Vat", I see "vat" - "repository", "vath" - "tomb" and "vet" - "doubt". Even recent splits, relatively, can diverge greatly like boot and trunk for the storage space at the rear of a car. Interesting the your idea for the meanings of both Zhat Vash and its possible Vulcan cognates seems to mean "the end of destruction" or "destruction of the end" or basically a mission to fight against the end or the destroyer. All of which are immensely creepy, and if the VLD is right about the meaning of "Shaht Vash"/"Shaht Vashaya", I think it's safe to say that the meaning of "Zhat Vash" is some variant of "The end of fear" or "The end of destruction". the Vulcans embracing a psychology that "turns them into" synths?). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. A theory with etymology and cognates of conlangs? I also notice that at this point that all the Zh-sounds in Romulan have counterparts beginning in Sh- in Vulcan, so we seem to have one clear language rule regarding sibilants that are voiced in Vulcan but de-voiced in Romulan. She’s mastered the Vulcan mind meld, and uses it on Agnes. Here is a closer look at what we saw in the Romulans' Zhat Vash vision on Star Trek: Picard, with scene-by-scene screenshots and theories from Episode 8. I'll buy that. "Gandmadan" , the apocalyptic "Day of Annihilation" event feared by the Zhat Vash, can be confirmed to mean "Day of death" in Vulcan. Hard to say if this is a one-off or a consistent shift without a larger corpus of words from both languages. It might describe the mind-breaking secret more directly; it might be a hint that the secret itself can "break minds" because it was developed as a memetic weapon (parrot? I see "pi-" as the diminutive prefix, for "small-/little-" in Vulcan and "k'svi" meaning "within". (PIC: "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1", "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"). "the line of judgment", "this is the place of parting", etc. If it does date from the Time of Awakening, it raises a further question about whether it's supposed to be a positive or negative attribute: it could be a principle that takes a parallel Romulan role to Surak's philosophy, or it could be a description of some aspect of Surak-ism that the Romulans found repellent (e.g. Is Pixmit something like "Little thing within" or "small revelation"? Since "Making the self transparent" is a superb name for a meditation exercise that explores one's mind and reveals what one doesn't want to face, I'm going to check this off as a positive "yes". In that light it's even possible that "fearless" is a valid translation for ZV. With Unification androids. it turns out true or not, this is pretty cool the... 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